Silver Newbie University
Welcome to Silver Newbie “U” where you will learn how to buy, sell, and trade silver like a pro.
I will make myself available to answer all questions through email. There is no charge, you don’t have to buy anything, you don’t have to sign up. You do need to know how to read :-)
Curriculum
I - Fundamentals
A. Silver is Silver, but some Silver is more equal than other silver.
B. Weighing and Measuring, Face Value and “By the ounce”.
C. Spot Price, what the hell is this?
II - Getting Silver for the least possible price
A. Buying Silver on EBay
B. Buying Silver from a dealer
C. “Stealing” Silver
III - Buying Practices
A. Know what you are buying or bidding on
B. Deceptive ads and item descriptions
C. When to buy, when to buy more
IV - Advanced Course, Selling Silver
A. Why?
B. Making money selling Silver, forget it!
C. Having fun doing it anyway
Lesson One Silver Fundamentals
George Orwell wrote in his great book, Animal Farm, that “all pigs are equal but some pigs are more equal than others.” And of course the pigs were above the rest of the animals.
Some silver is indeed is “worth more” more than other silver. But only because some people think this is true. In reality some just cost more and sells for more. But all silver is worth only what someone is willing to pay for it, just like any other commodity. It’s value lies in the difference between what you pay for it and what you can sell it for.
There’s .999 % pure silver (Rounds and Bars of different weight), .925 % pure silver (Sterling), .90% pure silver (US coins produced up to 1964) and foreign coins that can contain anywhere between 10% for the humble Mexican Peso to 80% for Canadian coins of the same era. Also 35% pure silver (War nickels) and 40% pure silver (American Half Dollar coins produced in 1965). Most often the silver is combined with copper to increase the longevity of the coin. Silver’s pretty soft and will “wear away.”
A refiner for example will pay around 90% of the current Spot Price (more about this later) for .999 pure silver. Actually it’s a little more, 92%, but only because all they have to do is melt it and pour into ingots. Which is how the end users of silver generally purchase it. For everything else they will pay 90% of the silver content in what you have to sell them because they have to get whatever else is in the silver out.
Pure Silver, .999, is measured, sold and bought by the Troy Oz, around 31.1 Grams. Or a fraction of, ½ Troy, ¼ Troy, nowadays 1/10th, 1 Gram and even by Grains (a fraction of a gram). As with most things, the less amount you buy the more it cost per measure.
But unlike most things you don’t get much of a break when you buy more no matter how much you buy. 5,000 Oz sells for sometimes only pennies less than what you can buy 1 Oz for. Most common is a 10 % “Above Spot” depending on how little you buy.
90% Pure Silver coins are bought and sold by their $1.00 Face Value. The silver content in $1.00 of US silver coins, dimes, quarters and half dollars is known by every living creature in the world to be .715% of a .999 Troy Oz. Remember that number it will come in handy. Silver Dollars contain 77% because they weigh a little more than the other denominations, 26.8 grams. All the rest weigh 25 grams per $1.00 FV.
So, to figure the value of a silver dime for example, you multiply $.10 (it’s FV) times .715. You get .0715 Troy Oz of Pure Silver. If the Spot Price of Silver is, say $35.00 per oz, then that dime has a value of $2.50. A quarter $6.25, a half dollar $12.50, and $1.00 in coins $25.00. Except the Silver dollar which would be $26.95.
That gets you to the relative value of US silver coins based on 25 grams per $1.00 FV. You don’t need a scale to weigh them to find out how many grams they weigh and then figure 90% of that. But it helps. Because circulated coins seldom weigh what they did at the mint. They get worn down.
Which is why some 90% coins are sold by their weight in ounces or part of an ounce, AVDP measure, of 28.3 grams per oz. For example that dime that should weigh 2.5 grams was squeezed pretty thin going through pay phones and soda machines and now weighs only 2.45 grams. That dime, under our consideration, now has a value of only $2.46. Using $35 per OzT, 31.1 grams, or about $1.12 per gram times 90% of 2.45 grams. Or you can just multiply the Spot Price by the factor of .70 to account for wear.
Now, last for this lesson is a discussion of The World Spot Price. It’s a term that means Everything and Nothing to the silver buyer, seller, trader. It’s merely a number indicating what SOME people are currently paying for Silver. Some people pay considerably more depending on what they are willing to pay for it. That’s you.
You’re not going to get silver for Spot unless you “steal” it at an auction. I’ve got it for less even, right here on EBay, but it isn’t easy and it doesn’t happen too often. Only “The Man” can buy silver at Spot. All the rest of us have to pay 10-20% OVER Spot, minimum.
So if the spot is $35 and you can get an OzT of .999 for $38.50 you better buy it. Right now I’m getting $42.50 for the .999 silver I’m selling and that’s pretty much the going rate. The Spot price for 90% is currently around $25.00 per $1.00 FV and people are getting $29-$30 for $1 Face, 25 grams. Which is about $41.00 per 1 Troy Oz.
And now class I hope you have learned that indeed all silver is equal. Some pigs just wear a fancy suit.
Lesson Two: Getting Silver for the least possible price
The Shipping Is Part Of The Price. So factor that in when you’re looking at and considering a purchase. Here on EBay it can be a significant part. It shouldn’t be, and Ebay does all it can to discourage sellers from using the shipping cost to “subsidize” the price of the item.
The practice led to having sellers pay Final Value fees on shipping. And the sad reality is that like every other product, the customer ends up paying for that too, one way or another. It’s considered a handling cost. There’s lots of Free Shipping offers, but folks there is no such thing as free shipping. It simply becomes part of the price we pay for the product.
So expect a slightly higher price for the silver when the shipping is Free, whether a Buy It Now or the amount you’ll have to bid at an auction. Look for items that offer combined purchase shipping. That way you can expect a savings if you buy more than one item. If you’re bidding you can bid a bit more knowing you’re not paying the same shipping over and over and actually win it for less. Same thing if you’re making an offer on a BIN sale. Don’t be shy about offering a little less per item if you’re buying more than one.
That being said, can one buy silver on EBay at a good price? Hell yeah. Just don’t pay more than you have to and know what other peeps are paying because that’s what you’re going to have to pay. Unless you get lucky at an auction and even then there seems to always be someone “around” that will put in a spot price bid on almost anything going across the block. (More about this in lesson Three)
Buying silver from a Dealer is another option. Most have a minimum purchase amount but some don’t. One I use and highly recommend is Provident Metals. They sell most anything you want for a set amount over Spot, will take your personal check and ship securely as soon as your funds clear. A cashiers check will speed delivery up but even that must wait to clear. If you’re looking to buy more than $1 or $2 face or more than a few ounces this is the way to go.
But for less than that you can get it cheaper on EBay because of the shipping cost. Minimum shipping from them is $5.95. For example 90% is selling for a list price of around $26.30 per $1.00 Face at the current Spot of around $34.83. One dime will cost you $8.58, ten dimes ($1.00 FV) will cost you $32.25, 1 Troy Oz of .999 at $36.50 will cost you $42.45 with shipping, at the moment.
You can buy 10 dimes right here on Ebay, at the moment, for around $30.00, less if you look around. A Troy Oz can be had for around $40. Add the shipping cost or take advantage of free and combined shipping and you can buy most any of it for less than at a dealer right here on EBay. If the Spot goes up so does their price. Whereas on Ebay, sellers are not “tied” to the spot price. But at any level above more than a few ounces it will probably be the least you’re going to get Silver for, unless you “Steal” it at auction.
“Stealing” it means put in a low bid (under spot or at spot or a little bit over or whatever price you want to pay) and wait and hope no one out bids you. Good luck with that LOL. There’s a better way to try this though. Using this method you’re not really “stealing” it, you’re winning it.
Here’s how it’s done:
Get your bid in as early (before other bidders) as you can. Otherwise you’re going to battle someone who feels like they already own it. I like to open the bidding with the minimum bid or the minimum over an opened item to “see” where I stand.
Once that’s done and you’re the high bidder put in more bids. I then put in a bid a little under the spot price for the item. My next bid will be at spot. My last bid is 10%-20% OVER the spot price depending on how bad I want it.
Other bidders will be reluctant to even join the bidding having seen you have capped your bid with other bids. They may try a few bids to see where you’re at but they don’t really want to tie up their funds on something they may get topped later in the auction (that’s like the last 5 seconds) while there are other items they can try and “steal”, right now.
Look for a seller putting up multiple auctions of the same item you want, especially if they finish one right after the other. Stake out you claim on one, more if you have the funds and want more. But don’t count on it.
I’ve won silver at or on some rare occasions below spot. It takes some amount of funds to do this because I tie up 2 or 3 or more auctions (which I have to pay for should I get lucky and get them all) to maybe win one of these. Bidding on each one gives me something to do while - you guessed it - I wait and hope.
Lesson Three: Buying Practices
The Key to happiness, it’s been said, is “Want what you got.” It follows, “Know what you want…” if you haven’t got it yet.
To know what you are bidding on or buying, when you’re looking at the listings, you have to do more than just look at the pictures. You may see a big pile of nice shinny coins and think that’s what you’re going to get. And when you open that package and find out it’s just a couple of quarters and a dime, you’re not going to be happy. Unless you knew what a half oz of 90% silver is. If that’s what the description said you were going to get, or whatever the case may be. You have to read what the description states.
Some sellers, your’s truly included, sometimes show a big pile of coins on the listing page to attract buyers and entice them to look at our item page. Once there the buyer finds out that, “No, you don’t get a big pile of coins.” “You are bidding on ½ ounce.” …“You will receive ½ oz of 90% silver coins” (if that‘s the case). You’ll read things like, “These are not the exact coins you will receive” or “They are ...” And, “You will get a random mix of the coins pictured.” “My choice” etc. are all typical descriptions. But that still doesn’t say how big that pile of coins is going to be. The buyer is expected to know that. Some don’t.
That’s why I like to show a picture of just what the buyer will receive or at least state it. “You will receive 1 half and 1 dime or 2 quarters and 1 dime, or 6 dimes.” Or some other combination that will weigh ½ ounce if that’s the case. Then there is no deception or misunderstanding. The buyer may think, “Damn, that’s not a pile, that’s just a few coins!” But they now know what ½ ounce of 90% silver coins is.
As mid term students of Silver Newbie U you should already know what the seller expects you to know as far as what’s what. And in case you don’t many sellers go into great detail to explain exactly what it is they are offering. They want you to be happy with your purchase. They really don’t want any negative feedback or even a low rating on buyer satisfaction so do your part. READ.
Now, when you see some Silver you like and might want, start by reading that feedback. Find out who you’re dealing with. If there is no negative feedback that’s a good sign and the comments left by other buyers is a good way of “getting to know” that seller. If it’s not 100% positive take a close look as to what the issue was. Some other newbie may simply have not read the description and was unhappy with what they got and blamed the seller. Some people, sad to say, are just not going to be happy no matter what and will find something negative to say.
A picture it’s said is worth a thousand words. That’s why a picture of 90% silver coins should match the description of what is being offered. Because if the seller uses a term such as “silver coins” to slip in a 35% silver war nickel or 2 or 20 or 40 into the lot, or a 40% Kennedy half, even when they tell you they’re going to do it, when the picture shows 90% silver coins, it’s deceptive.
And if the term 35% silver is nowhere in the description, even if 90% silver is not there either, when the picture shows 90% silver coins, it’s certainly deception. Unless of course the seller states, “You’re not going to get what’s in the picture (90% silver coins), you’re going to get a few 35% war nickels.” Sometimes, people, what matters most is not what you put in, but what you leave out. Don’t be fooled, look for what’s NOT in the description. Enough said about that.
“Buy in the dip.” This refers to the price of Silver on the world market. A line on a chart that goes up and down, The Spot, when it drops, as it does and will from time to time till there’s no more silver trading left. Buying and selling go hand in hand. “You can’t have one without the other.” When the price other people are willing to pay goes down it’s time to buy. That’s when you can expect to pay less than you’re going to have to pay in the future. Because after it goes down it’s going to go back up.
But during that moment in time, when someone, somewhere ,is willing to take less, if it’s a large enough amount, it will affect the whole market. Suddenly, like dandelions popping out of the ground at the first hint of spring people who don’t even buy silver are buying silver because it’s “cheap.” But the competition is so stiff that when you finally manage to get some you wonder why it cost you damn near what it did before the dip.
That’s because it has even MORE VALUE, even though it’s priced less… because it’s priced less. And when the price goes back up you’ll see, that indeed, you made a good buy. So if you spend a little more than you wanted don’t worry about it. In the long run Silver is never going to be worth less than it is right now.
Now is the time to buy. Tomorrow is the time to buy more. Even if it’s just a little at a time. One dime a week will get you over a roll in a year, $5.00 Face Value. That’s how much Silver class? That’s right students, “3.5 Troy Oz of Pure Silver MORE than you have right now.”
Next week class we discuss the other side of the Silver Coin, which is selling.
Lesson Four: Selling Silver
Why would anyone telling you about how the world economic system is about to crash, massive inflation is eroding the value of your dollars, social chaos coming where we’re all going to be bartering for our necessities, etc be willing to sell you their silver? If the point is to get rid of dollars and get something that will retain it’s value why trade silver for dollars? Sell silver to get dollars to buy more silver? I can tell you why I do it but first why others do it.
In the great 1951 film Cry, The Beloved Country there’s a scene where the country minister comes to the big city to find his son and happens upon a “cousin”, sitting with his fellow gold miners. He asks him, “Cousin why do you dig up de gold?” He’s told, “De man pays us money to dig up de gold.” And what does dat man do with de gold?” “Dat man sells it to de other man who melts de gold and makes it pretty.” “I see, cousin, and what do dat man do with de gold?” “He sell dat gold to people who want de pretty gold.” “And what do des people do with de gold?” “Dey dig a hole and put de gold back in de ground.”
At that point they all bust out laughing and agree, “De gold make de world go around.” It’s the same with silver, the same with any commodity, buying and selling makes the world go around. In the world of business nothing happens till something is sold. Buying and selling at some level go hand in hand and you really can’t have one without the other. It starts out with our Time spent in an endless dance to get enough so we don’t have to spend our time getting more.
Probably the only people that really make any money selling silver are those that care very little or even not at all about having it. Of course the refiners make money at it. They pay a fixed amount, usually 10% , under the Spot price and charge a fixed amount, again around 10%, over the Spot. And when the Spot goes up they make more on what they already bought. When it goes down they still make money because whatever they sell they are replacing at a cost below that. That’s not a big factor though because any silver that is bought is sold as fast as it’s made available. The job of taking in silver spoons, junk silver coins and industrial junk silver, bits and pieces left over from manufacturing and “making it pretty” goes on day after day. It’s much the same with the mints making pretty coins, rounds and bars. And silver coin dealers in general including your local coin shop. They operate on the “spread.” And of course jewelers, who make it even prettier.
To everyone else it’s more of a gamble, a “game”. Silver contracts are what a broker deals in. The promise to deliver a certain amount by a certain time some time in the future. If they think the Spot will fall, they “bet” on it by selling short, under the market price. Those that think the price will rise “bet” long and buy these “Shorts” and wait for delivery (they call that fulfillment), hoping the price will go up or at least not fall lower than their “buy in.” Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose, but they always make money. Even if it’s just from the commission from doing the deal. They deal in “paper silver.” They are playing “Futures.”
Because all of this happens “in the future”, and with silver they may or may not have, there’s plenty of room for mischief and manipulation in the moment. For example short silver is often “borrowed” or “leased” from the actual owners. Which means they have to give it back. If they make a good bet they buy it back from someone else when the price falls, return it to the owners and pocket the money they make on the “spread”, and everyone’s happy. If they can’t, they can always stall on delivery until they can. Or is sometimes the case they simply forfeit the money they have to put up when making the contract. Their “margin” money, a small percentage of the total cost of the short silver. This rule that they have to put up a certain amount “up front” is supposed to keep everyone “honest” ;-).
What it really does is make sure someone makes money. If the Spot rises the short seller has to put in more margin money or default on the contract “to deliver.” Or, and here’s the good part, they then make a “side deal” with a “certain someone”, who is sitting on a lot of silver, or says they are, to put it on the market for a ridiculously low price. That’s when the long players come in and scoop it up. When enough has been “sold” to satisfy the “short contract” (side deal) the silver is taken off the market and the price goes back up. When the price rises sufficiently, the longs fulfill their contracts, and the silver is finally delivered to the real buyer(s).
That’s why if you are buying a large amount of Silver you have to wait, sometimes months, sometimes YEARS. And here’s the really good part … there’s not enough silver stockpiled, produced, mined etc to fulfill ALL the contracts at one time. It’s a little like paying a bill with a credit card, rob Peter to pay Paul. Sometime, somewhere down the line, someone isn’t going to get their silver.
Small amounts you can get right now. But we pay a higher price. That makes it harder to make any money from selling it since many folks are under the illusion that the Spot price means something. But that’s not that bad. It promotes healthy competition where the supply and demand controls the price. People competing to buy silver from those that for one reason or another, have to sell it. Coins are dragged out of closets collected by wise forbearers who knew their real value to satisfy “bills”, silver obtained when the price was really low “appears“ whenever the price gets too high, and the silver some fool is trying to make money from selling it.
Myself, I’m a “silver junkie.” I don’t care what the price is, I buy as much as I can. It, my disease, started out when I bought some silver from a dealer friend, as a long time investment, who advised me to put it away and forget about it. But I wanted more silver, and the more I thought about it the more I wanted it. So I went on EBay to see what was happening.
What I found was that I could buy at a level that would allow me to sell off a part of it and keep a part of it for my Time. But not every time. Sometimes I have to kick in a little bit to keep some for myself. So I at least get it cheaper than just buying it outright. And that’s good enough for me.
If I got, say for example, $10 Face for $250.00 and sold off 9 of them for $30 each, about the going rate at the time (20% over cost) I could earn a free $1 face. After paying EBay fees, PayPal fees, transaction fees, insertion fees, store fees etc, that hardly ever happens.
After I pay Ebay $27.00, if I’m lucky, on top of the $250 I paid,
$277, I get that $1 Face for about $7.00.
If I get only $29.00 each, $261.00 minus fees, $234.90, that ounce cost me $15.10.
If I get $28.00 each, $252.00 minus fees, $226.80, That ounce now costs me $23.20.
If I get $27.50 each, $247.50, pay you know who 10% of that, $24.75, I’m left with $222.75. That ounce costs me damn near what you pay from me, $27.25! More than if I simply take the $250, $25 per Face, and put it away and forget about it.
But that isn’t much fun…
For your final assignment class I want you to write an essay on Silver. The best essay will get a prize. Please Email me if you're interested
Class Dismissed.
***
Clarification about 35% silver War Nickels
What They Are and What They’re Not
A reader wrote me and basically accused me of being a “hater” of war nickels and “bad mouthing” them in my lesson on deceptive descriptions. I wrote back telling him to read more carefully. The lesson wasn’t about war nickels, it was about how some sellers market them, “slip them in” to a 90% lot.
$1.00 FV of war nickels contains about 1.25 Troy oz of pure silver. The same $1.00 face of 90% contains about .723 Troy oz (at their mint weight). Does that mean they’re worth more? By FV yes … but they cost more too.
You can buy 20 war nickels, $1 face, right now for about $34.50 right here on Ebay or at my favorite metals dealer for about the same. At the current Spot of 32.50 you’re going to get about $36.50 worth of silver for that $34.50. Under Spot! That’s right, they can be had for less than the silver value they contain.
You can buy 10 90% silver dimes, $1 face, for $28 right here on Ebay, less if you get lucky, $24.50 from my dealer (not counting shipping). That’s about $23.50 in silver value at the same 32.70 spot. $1 - $5 over the Spot. But are the nicks therefore worth more, or more correctly do they have more value? Maybe.
To understand why you have to think in terms of weight, which the smelter is going to pay you for when they’re turned in to be melted.
A 35% war nickel weighs 5 grams and contains .056 ozT of .999 pure silver. 5 grams of 90% contains .145 ozT of .999. That’s why the dimes cost more, they’re worth more per gram.
But if your goal is to just gather silver at the lowest cost the nicks offer excellent value. But there’s a downside (isn’t there always?), most smelters aren’t buying war nickels at the current time. The cost in energy to remove the copper and manganese is too high to make it profitable. The answer to are the war nickels worth more is, not right now…
So you hold them till it is profitable. Or sell them at market price, or back to your dealer. My dealer will pay about $21.70 for the same $1.00 face of dimes they sell you for $24.50. They will give you only $27.50 for the same war nickels you bought for $34.50.
So beware of buying these 35% silver coins if they sold by weight, especially if part of a 90% lot. A war nick “slipped in” is 2 dimes in weight and only 38% of the silver value. Don’t be fooled by these “slicksters.” They KNOW what they’re doing.
